Suzanne Warye: Peripeteia Podcast
suzanne: [00:00:00] Yay,
Heather Lowe: Peripeteia Podcast listeners, I have a delight for you today. Suzanne Ware from the Sober Shift is here, and Suzanne and I have a lot in common including, um. Being from small towns right next to each other in Wisconsin, and both now living in the Chicagoland area and both being sober babes in midlife. We are going to talk about, um, as we're, we're laughing prior to hitting record that we're gonna talk about women's innards, we're gonna talk about women's issues through the gamut, right?
From, um, from. The innards from the motherhood to through the perimenopause. I'm really excited because Suzanne has a new book out called The Sober Shift, and you can't see it right now, but she's matching her. She's matching her book cover. So I'm thrilled. I wish I was, and I was probably one of the very first people to receive this book.
It's it.
suzanne: you
Heather Lowe: Technically releases on September 30th. So I've already read it. I loved it. It hooked me first chapter, like [00:01:00] going to a fancy Chicago Northshore, um, party, neighborhood party and free booze and champagne and where that leads us. So I was hooked. It was good. And you opened your heart, so thank you.
How are you doing? How are you feeling? Knowing the book is starting to trickle into people's hands?
suzanne: I'm feeling naked. I feel like I'm not wearing anything.
Heather Lowe: That's what I said. So exposed.
suzanne: yes. It's so funny because it's almost like I didn't think this through, which is,
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: hilarious.
Heather Lowe: think about it because I'm writing a book and I'm like, why would you
suzanne: right
Heather Lowe: belay yourself open and expose yourself? Like you don't really have to do that.
suzanne: have to,
Heather Lowe: But you kind of did have to, like you had a calling that said I had to.
suzanne: The thing is like, okay, I, I wanted the book to be the best, that book that I could write, right?
And so then I was like, okay, obviously, like as you're writing the book, which you're probably figuring out, you're just, it's just you in the book. Like it's
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: in the library, right[00:02:00]
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: It's me and my editor going back and it's just, it's just me. Like
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
suzanne: and my computer. And then, I mean, it's been such a long process. It's been like. Three years almost that I've been working on this. And so it just feels like it's never really like, yeah,
Heather Lowe: Right.
suzanne: gonna be published. Yeah, I got a deal, but come on, what does that really mean?
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: then you're like. Oh, oh, it's gonna be published. Oh my God. It's in people's hands. Oh my God. People are reading it. And so now this week I've been like doing that spiral
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: of like, oh God, oh my God, what did they, what did I write? Oh,
Heather Lowe: Oh yeah.
suzanne: okay. There's that and, and, and I share so many of my stories that I've never shared before,
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: and which I know if you listen to my podcast, um, you're like, you talk so much.
There's literally like. Nothing. You've shared the not, nothing you haven't shared before and no, there is. And so feels, [00:03:00] I do feel
Heather Lowe: Yeah, I totally understand that. And um, you're like, but wait, there's more. You think you know about me, but wait, there's more.
suzanne: I know. There's so much more.
Heather Lowe: I wanna praise you for being vulnerable and for sharing your story because it does help sharing stories heals and you know that, you know that from your own life and story, and you know that from your community.
Your, the sober mom cafe, that story heals. So thank you for putting it out there. It is very vulnerable. You're literally sitting in your, um, skeleton closet wallpaper, and you have, you've pulled out the skeletons and shared 'em with us, so. Um, shame lives in the dark. So at the minute it's brought into the light, it's exposed.
So I'm, I'm, um, I'm gonna be on, I'm a safe nest for you. A safe reader who said, yeah, I get it. I relate. I love her. I care about her. I want the best for her. Thank you for sharing. So I bet most readers will feel that way too. And of course, there's the haters and the trolls. And who cares about them. Who cares [00:04:00] about them?
suzanne: I know. Well, thank you that, you know, it really, it really does. Anytime I've like stretched myself, um, in my vulnerability, which I've done. Over the course of the past, like decade, many times in just like kind of opening a the door further and further and like letting more and more people in. Um, the only way I'm able to do that is, is. Hearing things like that. Like you say, thank you for sharing. And, and so people know, women know that you're not alone. Right. And that's, that's the key That's always been the goal is I always thought I was the only one and the only one struggling and doubting and, and that everyone else kind of had this drinking thing figured out.
And so yeah, being able, you know. To jump and, and just like kinda cross your fingers that they're gonna catch you. And [00:05:00] I have such faith that, 'cause they always have caught me, like when I shared about my, my postpartum anxiety and then OCD, that was kind of my first foray into being like, okay, I mean, I love talking about sweaters and you know, jeans, but can we also talk about. Intrusive thoughts or, and, and that they were like, yes, too. Thank you. And that really, and you know, I, I did that in like 2016. I think I started opening up about that. And so that did give me this kind of foundation of, okay, not only, not only can I do it, but I, I think I'll feel supported. And so right now I'm just kind of, I'm in the. The free fall part of the jump. Like, I kind of have jumped and now I'm like waiting for the arms to be like, haha. Gotcha.
Heather Lowe: Yeah. And the book hasn't landed on the ground yet for the general [00:06:00] public. Yeah. So neither have you. Yeah.
suzanne: Yeah,
Heather Lowe: Yeah. But you've got a parachute.
suzanne: yeah, I've got a parachute and I'm still, I, I, I'm like, yeah. And I, and I've also kind of made a, a promise to myself that I'm not gonna. I don't know. Now that I say this, am I really not that I'm not gonna read reviews? Am I really gonna be able to do that?
Heather Lowe: I mean, curiosity kills the cat. We'll see. But I will say most people, um, actually I, Liz Gilbert, Elizabeth Gilbert also just came out with a book, right? And I just saw her last weekend and she said, write, what happened is her writing advice write what happened. And she goes, people are so worried about the publishing piece that they don't write.
Write for yourself, write your audience. And as I'm writing, I'm realizing writing, this is therapeutic for me.
suzanne: Yes.
Heather Lowe: I'm writing the book. What happens with the editing and the publishing? It's like, that's not my business right now. That will become my business later. But for now I'm writing. And so, so [00:07:00] people are so worried about the exposure or the publishing piece that they never finished the book.
So you finished the book, so maybe it's good you didn't really think that through, because at least you got a finished book outta it, right?
suzanne: it
Heather Lowe: It could have stopped you.
suzanne: yes, it was probably self production. Right. Of
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: I can't think this through. I mean, I do that on the podcast. I'm sure you do that too, like recording or on Instagram or wherever I share content. not thinking about, uh, it who's going to hear it. I might be thinking about one person
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: person is like the ideal person who I want to, to hear my message, right?
But I'm not thinking about like my neighbor listening to my podcast because
Heather Lowe: Right.
suzanne: I wouldn't record it.
Heather Lowe: Same. I know.
suzanne: the stuff I say,
Heather Lowe: I'm just like, thank God my husband doesn't listen to all these.
suzanne: oh my God, right.
Heather Lowe: He has no idea that God bless him.
suzanne: Yes.
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: Oh, my husband is [00:08:00] like in the dark about a lot of it. And, and, uh, yeah. That's okay.
Heather Lowe: That's perfect. Yeah, and I just recorded one, um, from Madison. It was like a person in one of key, and that felt different because I'm like, it's one thing to be out there in the world on the interwebs and having like followers in that way. It's another thing to bring it back to your hometown and for me to like be speaking people listening who are standing around the keg with me in the field.
You know what I mean? Like that's a different kind of.
suzanne: Yes.
Heather Lowe: But you're doing well from your mother-in-law to your high school person to your biggest enemy. It's on the shelves so anyone can can. Yeah.
suzanne: I
Heather Lowe: Which is fine. 'cause you've got nothing to, you've got nothing to hide. And the other thing is the reviews, they're not for you.
Like they're not for business really.
suzanne: Yeah. Like, I
Heather Lowe: Right.
suzanne: it,
Heather Lowe: And you're not for everyone,
suzanne: Yes.
Heather Lowe: so who cares?
suzanne: for everyone.
Heather Lowe: Oh, thank God.
suzanne: God.
Heather Lowe: What felt like the most vulnerable thing to talk about? Was it the [00:09:00] postpartum OCD?
suzanne: I think so, I think that always, you know, is, is probably my biggest pain point
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: in life.
Heather Lowe: Mm.
suzanne: I, know, if I'm having like a down day and I just wanna cry, I either think about my dad or I think about the year and, and, and a couple months that I, that I kind of lost in there. To postpartum OCD and, and that that'll get me, I, I, I have such, um, I just have so, such compassion for girl who, who really felt like this is it. You know, something's, something's just inherently wrong with me or just I'm bad and that, that my thoughts were predictive of the future. And so, [00:10:00] um, I, yeah, I, I would, I would, you know, would end it all. And so that, yeah, that was probably, it's also a hard thing as moms to talk about because it's the worst. It's just, it's just the worst thing. You know, my, I had, I still have, I have harm OCD and so my intrusive thoughts are always based around harming somebody, right? That I don't want to, and that it would just like happen or I I, that it, it, it's, it's such an. It's such a hard thing to explain to someone who doesn't have an OCD brain, but I think we all have those thoughts and they just kind of come and go, right?
Like we all have crazy, insane thoughts and OCD brain like mine. It doesn't just come and go. It latches on and it kind of just sticks. And then. You become like haunted by this thought. It [00:11:00] feels predictive. It feels like it's kind of a foregone conclusion and it, but it's your worst nightmare. It's the one thing that you would not want to have happen, and so it's a. It's hell, it's hell on Earth. And if anyone's experiencing that, go get help. Please, please, please don't wait. Don't wait as long as I did. I know it's really scary to say the thoughts out loud. Um, but it, it's, it's OCD. It's not you.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: and there's, there's help. And I'll be on meds for the rest of my life because my brain needs help.
And that's okay if my brain needs help.
Heather Lowe: I love that you're taking care of yourself, um, and you have education and you have language for it now, but I'm imagining you didn't always have that.
suzanne: I, no,
Heather Lowe: So thank you for educating us on this.
suzanne: Yeah, I, I didn't know I had OCD, like, I, I didn't know that that's what that was. I didn't even know intrusive thought.
Heather Lowe: [00:12:00] Mm-hmm.
suzanne: know that that was a thing. Um, no, I had no idea. I, I, it, it took me. It, it, it took me by complete surprise and almost took me down. Um, and then once I, once I learned about it and thank God I had like a great therapist and a great psychiatrist who really right sized it they were like. this is OCD. Like these are called intrusive thoughts. tearing you up. That's how I know that it's OCD, because if it was like a psychosis or something, it would, it would sound like a great idea and you would want to do it right.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: that it goes against everything you believe in and every everything you are that it's this.
Heather Lowe: Like, you know, it's intrusive.
suzanne: yes, that's how you
Heather Lowe: Yeah. It, it would be psychosis if you didn't, you thought that voice was your voice.
suzanne: Yes. If you
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: oh my God, yeah, that's okay. Well obviously this is a
Heather Lowe: Harm. [00:13:00] Harm this person? Yeah.
suzanne: And so yeah, hearing that it was just such a relief
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: my God. And then when my psychiatrist was like, I. It's OCD is almost easier to treat than generalized anxiety because it's a switch in your brain. And I remember she said that, I don't know if it's, I mean, it's obviously not a switch in your brain. It was just her like metaphorically talking about it. But I was like that the fact that she said it like that helped me so much and still today helps me so much. When you struggle with thoughts and with your brain, it's a very, like, weird meta thing, right?
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: it's, it's really messed up. And so the fact that she said it's a switch, and my brain kind of latched onto that
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: and then saw the meds as like, this is the switch.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: I could like feel the switch. It, was
Heather Lowe: I love it. It makes so much sense to me. And the, oh my gosh, a huge [00:14:00] reason why I am a coach and got certified in this is alcohol, but it's also because mental health, mental health, like I, when you struggle with that, are you having a bad day or is it your meds that are putting you in a bad mood? Right. Or is this your, your issue, you know, is this OCD that's having a bad day or is your meds a little bit off?
Or like, are you just mad because it's okay to be mad right now? No.
suzanne: human.
Heather Lowe: You don't know. And I think that's so confusing for so many people. I have so much compassion for anybody walking that, walking that line. But yeah, your brain is like a circuit board. So like if this switch over here is going on and off, out of circuit, right, like it's just blinking all the time,
suzanne: Yes.
Heather Lowe: yeah, you just take this pill and then you turn it off and leave it off.
So I love that analogy.
suzanne: yeah, it's so true to think about, you know, and, and. meds saved my life for sure. And the thing that, you know, I, I would [00:15:00] never, I, I used to never just take anything, right. I still just don't, I, I would like forget to take Tylenol like, or ibuprofen if I have like a pinched nerve. My husband's like, did you take ibuprofen?
I'm like, oh my God, no. But that's a great idea. He's like, why?
Heather Lowe: I just complain about. I just complain about it.
suzanne: I, it's like not even on my radar to take, you know, and I've just always been like that. I'm not against it. I just never think of it as an option.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: then I was afraid to take meds and I was like, God, I, I wanted to have more babies. Like, what did that mean?
But this was so tied up in motherhood for
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: having babies and, and yeah, I was on the meds through, through two more pregnancies. Breastfeeding. They are healthy, happy children. You know, like the, the, yeah. I, I am so forever grateful for sertraline.
Heather Lowe: Yeah. Such a good message. So lemme ask you, this did [00:16:00] sponsored by.
suzanne: yeah. This episode sponsored by ser.
Heather Lowe: Exactly my therapist's name, my psychologist's name.
suzanne: Yeah.
Heather Lowe: did you, so did you have signs before? Okay. And then it, and then postpartum, it escalated. It really, like, it
suzanne: did,
Heather Lowe: so unbearable that you were like, this is beyond, and then you learned about it and you're like, oh, I've always had a, a version of this, a milder version of this.
Okay,
suzanne: I.
Heather Lowe: what's like, what that looked like.
suzanne: Well, you know, I think what it was is my OCD always attacked was most important to me, before having kids, it was not as, you know, I could live with it if it's, you know, if it's, if it's something with me or growing up, I, it was something, you know, with my mom, which was very distressing, but it wasn't, a mom it wasn't gonna [00:17:00] attack. It wasn't attacking my child yet, right? But then in motherhood, what became most important to me was my baby.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: And so then that threat, the threat of something happening to her, became something I couldn't, I, I couldn't stand, I, I couldn't. I couldn't just live with, I couldn't brush it off. I couldn't, you know, kind
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: deal with it
Heather Lowe: This is very concerning 'cause that's the thing you care most about.
suzanne: Yes,
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: it's, I had never loved anyone like that. Right. A mother's love is it, it, it trumps all everything. And so then I think that the stakes were raised
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: in motherhood and it became. It became that, and, you know, yeah, yeah. So then it ki it kind of just heightened so along with the hormones and [00:18:00] everything that's happening in postpartum and the, and the complete drop off of hormones right away.
Right. Because my pregnancy, I had anxiety, but my OCD was okay. Like I didn't have a lot of the intrusive stuff. I had heightened anxiety. But then that, that like crazy drop off in hormones. Then coupled with now I have something that I'm, I'm actually completely in, in charge of and who I do love more than anything.
Like it was like the perfect storm to
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: okay, OCD can now, now take the stage.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm. So you got help.
suzanne: Yes,
Heather Lowe: Did you have intervention? Did somebody say, go get help, or were you like, I gotta talk to somebody? Tell us how that went down.
suzanne: because my compulsions were mental.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: I was very good at hiding it. I kind of let my, my, my husband and my mom in a little [00:19:00] bit. but not, not much,
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: I wasn't like, there, I wasn't, I wasn't telling them everything.
And so, so I was really able to hide it and. It was probably a, it was like a year and three months. and I had like the best idea ever in my mind at that time in my broken mind. Um, and it, and it was to take me out of the equation of this thing like that. If you know, it's her or me, it's obviously. It's me like that's an easy choice. That felt like it, and it felt like the best idea I had had the best thought that had run through my mind a year and three months, and it felt like a relief and it [00:20:00] felt like, oh my God, thank you. Oh my God, why didn't I think of this before? And thank God, I don't know. I don't know. Why? Because you do lose such so much perspective when you're in that OCD But I did have perspective to to say, I don't think this is supposed to feel like a relief. Like I don't think this is supposed to feel like. Such a great idea. And so I told, I told my husband was at work and I, I called my mom and I was, I just like broke down and like caught her up and I was like, it's really bad. I need help like now. And so then, yeah, we got help. We went to a therapist who then was able to say like, oh, is OCD. I need you to see a psychiatrist. [00:21:00] And I was terrified. And I did. And then, I mean, that's it. I continued with therapy and, you know, but, but it did bring me to my darkest point ever. And, and you know, I do now look at it like. And it's crazy to say this 'cause I would've never thought that I would've looked at OCD like a gift. Um, but I, I do getting through that and really being brought down to that level and then asking for help and getting it, and then it really did give me perspective on my thoughts and like how messed up thoughts can be in our brains. And that we aren't what we think our brains are wrong so much. You know, before that [00:22:00] I, I just didn't have that perspective
Heather Lowe: Don't have to believe everything you think.
suzanne: Yeah. Yeah. I, and, and know, I think we, we could really get tangled up when we start to, I, especially when we quit drinking, like bringing it to sobriety. I think we have, like, we're very focused on our thoughts in early sobriety, right? Like, oh my God, if I am wanting a drink, if I'm thinking about a drink, am I gonna have a drink? And like if I, this means it's predictive, right? Like obviously I'm gonna do this thing. And just to be able to have the perspective of like, no, I have thought. Insanely horrifying things that had zero basis in reality, like none that felt so real and they were so wrong
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: that [00:23:00] it kind of just gave me this ability to zoom out, which I use all the time. I, I, I have a more, yeah, a more like meta. Perspective on my thoughts, I think
Heather Lowe: That you're not the thoughts, you're the person hearing the thoughts.
suzanne: And, and just that they're insane,
Heather Lowe: Oh, and not to latch on.
suzanne: huh?
Heather Lowe: You don't have to latch onto it just because you heard it. You can let it pass like a crowd. I feel like you're like, um, you wanna be a superhero, like, boom, boom, pow bam as the thoughts are coming in right? To shield yourself from letting them get getting closer.
suzanne: oh my God, like. Yeah, like, like if you're, if you're um, you know, wanting to quit drinking or to quit something or to break up with somebody or whatever, make some sort of change in your life and your thoughts are kind of like tripping you up. 'cause we're hyperfocused on like that, right?
Oh my [00:24:00] God, I'm thinking about alcohol. Oh my God, I'm thinking about him, or I'm thinking about this thing. I can't move on. Notice the other thoughts, the other insane thoughts you have throughout the day, like. Like illegal, immoral, um, totally insane thoughts
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: like we don't give credence to those thoughts.
Thoughts are just thoughts and
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: nothing more. They're, and, and we all have crazy thoughts, like
Heather Lowe: I always think about Stephen King to write those books. It's like. He has crazy thoughts.
suzanne: Crazy thoughts.
Heather Lowe: You can be brilliant, talented, amazing, wonderful, lovable, uh, and have super insane thoughts. Right,
suzanne: you would be locked away for life
Heather Lowe: right,
suzanne: everyone your thoughts and if they mattered.
Heather Lowe: right, right.
suzanne: all would be canceled. Okay. Like it, it would just be, yeah. Thoughts are are not real.
Heather Lowe: Yeah, [00:25:00] exactly. So you had. OCD and hormones are related to that.
suzanne: Yes.
Heather Lowe: And then you had a sobriety journey. So some of this you were navigating probably trying to navigate with alcohol and hiding the OCD goes, right? Uh, I'm guess, I'm guessing what I know about you is you're a perfectionist. You want everything to look good on the outside and all this stuff.
So you were hiding OCD, you were hiding, drinking, trying to keep up appearances. 'cause you're just that kind of person that wants, wants to be well and wants everything to be well. So it's gonna paint the picture that it is. Um,
suzanne: Yep. Yeah.
Heather Lowe: you were kind of like, well practice and hiding and pretending and, yeah.
suzanne: in, just in, in presenting, right, in
Heather Lowe: Hmm.
suzanne: like who I wanted to be in my OCDI, I do think that so much of my, obviously my early motherhood was so like informed by my OCD. I [00:26:00] didn't turn to alcohol during that period. I think because. Everything felt out of control. Like my brain felt out of control and so I really wanted to have control. I needed, I needed to have control. I totally can see me going the opposite way and saying like, everything feels out of my control. I just don't wanna feel, so I don't wanna think I wanna drink to black out, right? Like,
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: have gone that way. I went more in the. What can I control? I did, I got like skinny working out a ton. I mean, really, like, I look at those pictures and I'm like, man, like I, I, I could, I did go into like control mode and then, but yes, I was very good at hiding the OCD and like, just just like kind of, you know, head down, get through this. [00:27:00] And just like power through. And then as kind of, yeah, I got the MedStar working.
I felt like myself again. I had another baby and I was like, okay, this is great. Then alcohol did, you know, come back in and I was able to be like, okay, now I'm not like just holding on for dear life anymore then trying to make alcohol work with motherhood. Right, and all of the, and really. Not loving it, not like it just didn't feel right. I wasn't drinking like I did in my party girl days, but I still, I still didn't like it, but I still wouldn't talk about it.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: just like silently, you know, take the temperature of everybody else. How much are they drinking? Are we drinking water now? Okay. Right.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: like monitoring and really seeing like, okay, am I doing this right? Am I drinking? Am I drinking like adults should. Okay. I guess except it's [00:28:00] horrible and I hate it. Yeah,
Heather Lowe: So, um, this is interesting and at that you also had an audience. You were already an influencer for style and you had an audience, and so. How was it to change to like, I'm sober. I'm gonna say I'm sober. I'm gonna say it out loud and I'm gonna, I'm gonna probably lose followers from my style. Influence
suzanne: Yeah.
Heather Lowe: I'm not, because, I mean, nothing looks better than like a cute outfit and a glass of champagne, to be honest.
Right?
suzanne: And, and I had been doing that for so long,
Heather Lowe: Mm.
suzanne: a mommy
Heather Lowe: Like, eat your words. Come back with your, yeah. You had to be like, okay. Yeah.
suzanne: you remember when I told you that
Heather Lowe: Oh,
suzanne: Yes. I, I mean, I, I had campaigns with brands. I
Heather Lowe: hmm.
suzanne: wine brands a lot. Um, totally. And then I actually kept them, kept them [00:29:00] separately for a little bit.
I was doing my sobriety thing over on the sober mom life, Instagram without telling anybody. Um, just kinda working through what I was thinking about it.
Heather Lowe: Just sort of split yourself like, this is for my sober content. This is my day job, let's say.
suzanne: Yes,
Heather Lowe: Okay. And trying to navigate that walking one foot in both worlds.
suzanne: totally. And then I was actually having, um, coffee with my friend Katie Resing, and she was like, what are you doing? And I was like, do you mean? and she was like, why are you not just bringing sobriety into. Over here, you know, into where you spend all of your time and like, like think it feels like you're trying to keep it over here, but that doesn't feel like you like, and so she really pushed me to, in a good way to be like, okay, yeah, I think this does feel. Yes, split and, and not whole, which is [00:30:00] exactly what my sobriety, my sobriety made me feel whole. And so then why am I splitting this thing? And I knew why. Because for all, like what you said, like what are they gonna say? Are they gonna unfollow me? What are they gonna think? I, I also was very clear that I wanted to use the word sober, I wanted to like rebrand it. So, but I knew that they would think, oh, how bad, you know, bad did it get? Like, what's going on behind the camera? Right. Which, there was a lot going on behind the camera, but it wasn't like a, that bad situation. So yeah, I was, was terrified. But it was, it was like we were talking about with the book, it was like a, they had caught me when I, when I kind of went out on a limb and was like, okay. What I shared with my first baby wasn't the full story. Here's, you know, what I've been struggling with, and they caught me. And [00:31:00] so I was like, let's try this again. It might feel like a bigger jump, but here we go. And then I started sharing it. And then as I started sharing it, and I got flooded with messages and, and, you know, I was like, oh my God, th this need, we need to talk about this.
This was like an, an. 2022. 20 20 21, 20 22. I don't know. I don't know.
Heather Lowe: Early twenties.
suzanne: time's not real.
Heather Lowe: Yeah,
suzanne: And uh, and so
Heather Lowe: the 19 hundreds.
suzanne: I know especially after COVID, I'm like, I
Heather Lowe: Right.
suzanne: Yeah. So. So, and then, and, and then it did make it, it made it easier. And I, I mean, I still had, you know, the Chads and the Brads being like, you're gonna drink again because you're obviously in denial.
You're not calling yourself an alcoholic and you should. And I'm like, okay, thanks [00:32:00] for stopping by and leaving, leaving a comment to help my engagement. you know, and,
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: yeah, there are still people who don't quite get it, but that's okay. You know?
Heather Lowe: so interesting to me that when somebody says they quit drinking the fir, I mean, the thing that pops in everybody's head is, oh my God, what's the worst thing you've ever done?
suzanne: Yes, yes,
Heather Lowe: How bad is it? Right? Like the only reason to quit would be.
suzanne: yes,
Heather Lowe: You wrapped your tree around a car, you gotta diagnose it or something that there would be no other reason.
suzanne: yes.
Heather Lowe: And that's what our fear is. And our fear is that actually we have had a dark moment, maybe it's just at 3:00 AM and our own guilt and shame, which a lot of it is science because that's just the, the alcohol leaving your system that's detox is gonna increase. Your withdrawal is gonna create anxiety anyways.
suzanne: Yeah.
Heather Lowe: Um, but. Yeah, that thing that it would be beco. People are curious. We love a, I mean, we love
suzanne: it's so true.
Heather Lowe: our [00:33:00] head in the mirror, like we, like as a society, we wanna watch that downfall, right? And we're so curious,
suzanne: And I think, and I was, I've been that person, I've been the one being like, why? What happened?
Heather Lowe: right? What happens?
suzanne: me saying that I, I was like the temperature of like, okay, how bad. And I say that in huge quotes, you guys, 'cause you're not bad. You're not the problem, it's the alcohol you, nothing wrong with you.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: But I would, I would think, how bad was she? How bad am I?
Heather Lowe: Right.
suzanne: did that happen to her? Okay. That didn't happen to me. But if it happened, like, does this mean I have to quit drinking? Right. Like it's this
Heather Lowe: Sure. I love the people that drank more than me. 'cause they were my barometer. Not that, well, she's doing more and she's fine, so I'm fine. Right.
suzanne: so
Heather Lowe: all doing it.
suzanne: yes, and looking for that barometer outside of ourselves. I
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: that some people will read the [00:34:00] book and you know, I say, I didn't have a rock bottom, and they'll be like, you nursed your baby in a blackout. Like
Heather Lowe: Okay.
suzanne: if that's not a rock bottom, and that might be a rock bottom to somebody, right?
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: the thing is it's so subjective.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: when we, when we seek for the answers outside of ourself, for someone to say like, okay, let's see here.
Uh, no, that is not rock bottom. Keep going. Or, oh, yep, that's rock bottom. Turn in your drinking privileges. Um, we're just going to get even more confused and we're
Heather Lowe: Yeah,
suzanne: gonna know.
Heather Lowe: you and I totally speak the same language, and it's interesting because. So the word sober was always fine with me too. I, and I have a lot of clients too. They don't like that word and it bothers them. And I say, that's fine. You don't have to use it. It's not a requirement. You call yourself up all free.
You just call yourself free. You call yourself whatever you want. You don't have to use
suzanne: want.
Heather Lowe: sober. But [00:35:00] I don't mind it one bit. I never have. It's always fine with me and then not that bad. I always think like for a decade I was waking up, hating myself.
suzanne: Yes. Yeah.
Heather Lowe: like, oh, really? It has to get worse.
suzanne: Yes,
Heather Lowe: what people would say a high bottom.
I was high functioning. I didn't lose, you know, I didn't lose everything over it or anything like that. But also being not that bad kept me drinking for so long.
suzanne: yes.
Heather Lowe: that's not the right question because. I don't wanna be not that bad. I'm not with our one wild and precious life. You wanna be not that bad for your one wild and precious life.
No. I wanna be freaking amazing, right? I wanna have confidence and I wanna feel good and I don't wanna miss any moments from a blackout or a hangover or a like I wanna be balls to the walls with joy and gratitude and presence and
suzanne: that.
Heather Lowe: being not that bad keeps me in a really [00:36:00] like purgatory situation when I could just.
Be living so much better.
suzanne: Yes. Like that. That can't be the goal. Like if
Heather Lowe: Right.
suzanne: that
Heather Lowe: Congratulations. Your drinking's not that bad. It's like that's not your goal.
suzanne: not that. Like, that's not, yeah, that's not the goal. Or, or like, come on, don't you wanna live a little? Right. It's like,
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: I wanna live like a whole lot. I wanna live a whole more than what
Heather Lowe: Right.
suzanne: provide.
So, yeah.
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: your, your balls to the wall saying just makes me miss Wisconsin. You know? Such a good, such a good Wisconsin saying, balls to
Heather Lowe: Oh, geez, Louise. I know. I feel like, um, it's shocking. We probably have been, um, drinking in base, a basement somewhere together.
suzanne: for real, we've pro, we've
Heather Lowe: may have gotten in a, i, I don't know, we may have like shared a bathroom stall. You, you know, I mean, shared lipstick or something. I don't know,
suzanne: because what, what year did you graduate?
Heather Lowe: from high school, 94.
suzanne: Okay. Okay. I was 98. You were [00:37:00] like the, the cool, like
Heather Lowe: So, yeah, I came home from college probably.
suzanne: And I was like, oh my
Heather Lowe: I kicked you out, didn't I? No, I'm just kidding.
suzanne: No. And I
Heather Lowe: Sorry.
suzanne: I'll be cool.
Heather Lowe: Right. I'll like, okay.
suzanne: That's so funny.
Heather Lowe: I know so small town, so, okay, so the drinking is outta the picture, so that's not the problem anymore. But now you're in a new stage of life and I'm curious about how hormones and OCD and sobriety where you're at now in your, in your lady parts.
suzanne: In my, in my lady innards. Can that, can this episode be called
Heather Lowe: It will be called Yeah,
suzanne: good. Okay. I'm just making sure.
Heather Lowe: obsessed about the, we're obsessed about the lady in.
suzanne: obsessed about the lady innards. Yeah. So when I, um, after the birth of my third, so not, not immediately after, like couple years after, I think I had a hysterectomy when I was, uh, I don't even know, but I, I'm telling you, it was a couple years, maybe three or four years ago. [00:38:00] And I always had like horrible fibroid pain. Like horrible. Like my cousins had hysterectomies in their twenties. My mom had one before she was 40. Like, we've all gotten that out before forties. Right. And first of all, why isn't this, why isn't this discussed more? Having a hysterectomy, it, it feels like, and I kept my ovaries, so, but it feels like even the doctors were like, Hmm, don't know if you should do this.
And I'm like, wait, HPV because I was adventurous, you know? so you're gonna take my cervix and my, and this organ, yes, that grew babies, but also has been causing me so much pain and is. Like so painful for me, like get it out. It's been great not having uterus, I just
Heather Lowe: Wait, the general opinion is like, I'm gonna exaggerate, but [00:39:00] maybe like if that's a motherhood organ, shame on you for getting rid of it because your one purpose in life is motherhood.
suzanne: right.
Heather Lowe: Even though you're done carrying children,
suzanne: still need
Heather Lowe: you should, you still need that. You're really lost. Lose your value without it.
Your, your book,
suzanne: not
Heather Lowe: your value is gonna go down a lot,
suzanne: Yeah, because otherwise you're not like a real woman or something.
Heather Lowe: Oh, you're not a real woman, okay. Yeah. And you can't decide for yourself about that.
suzanne: yeah, I
Heather Lowe: It's just something you shouldn't do. That's a worst case scenario.
suzanne: Yeah. Yes, exactly. Well, also hysterectomy. The word it, the root word is hysterical because they thought the uterus were making us hysterical.
People. Hysterical. Because you know, women, you know, we're just with all of our emotions, men don't have emotions at all. 'cause anger is apparently not an emotion.
Heather Lowe: Don't get me started. It's gonna turn into a political rant.
suzanne: know,
Heather Lowe: second.
suzanne: No, no, no. We won't
Heather Lowe: Okay. Okay. [00:40:00] Okay.
suzanne: we
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: bash that a little.
Heather Lowe: Right.
suzanne: and yeah, so getting it out then means that they wouldn't be hysterical.
Heather Lowe: Okay.
suzanne: so hysterectomy, that's where that
Heather Lowe: But you're, you got it out and you're still crazy. Right.
suzanne: am You guys, I'm even more hysterical. If, by
Heather Lowe: Okay, perfect. Good.
suzanne: funny,
Heather Lowe: I mean, that's your charm.
suzanne: Then I, okay, so that said, I still have my ovaries, which means I am entering. I don't know. Here's the thing about me.
Heather Lowe: Well, I'm four years older, so I'm the big sister now.
suzanne: okay, I know you're the big
Heather Lowe: Okay.
suzanne: have to tell me because. I'm also very much like, yeah, I don't know. Like my husband will joke, like my, I have horrible feet. I know this is completely off topic, topic. I have horrible feet, like horrible, like bunions and like just the ugliest feet you've ever seen. he'll be like. It's so odd because you treat your feet like they're just like not a part of you. And so I'm very good at [00:41:00] just being like, yeah, whatever. It'll, it'll fix itself. Right? And so with perimenopause, I've not been in tune with my. With like, I'm just kind of like, nah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe I didn't sleep well last night. I don't, I don't know what it is. Like I don't have to do anything about it until, of course we all have the chat I'm on a chat with my best friends and they're like, you guys, this joint pain from par, from perimenopause is really, uh, sucks.
And I was like, oh, I have that. And they're like, yeah. And I, and they're like, and then the, the sweating at night, I'm like, wait. Oh, I'm doing that too. They're like, duh, you're in perimenopause. So it took me, it took me other people being like, Suze, I think you're in perimenopause. For me to be like, oh, but I thought I was like 25.
Heather Lowe: We have such a little education about it, it's starting to get better and the, [00:42:00] the symptom list is a hundred pages long, right? It's like everything Exactly.
suzanne: know, like what?
Heather Lowe: women, we've been dealing with everything for always. So what's the different, like now this, now that?
suzanne: three kids
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: and I, you know, I, our pain tolerances are so high
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: that it's just like I, yeah. So, so far. It's been, I think it's been okay. But I think what's interesting is that I, the conversation I hear online, it's like people are turning to alcohol. Women are turning to alcohol to deal with perimenopause, and they're like, oh God, you know, and I'm like that I can't, I, I can't imagine like adding alcohol to this mix. I have noticed my mood swings. Okay. I have noticed. I have noticed increased mood swings.
Heather Lowe: Okay, fine. I'm a bitch. I've always been kind of a bitch, but no, I'm more major.
suzanne: e exactly
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: I [00:43:00] am a little bit bitchier than normal. and. Yeah, but now I just chalk it up to perimenopause where if alcohol was in the mix, I wouldn't know what the heck is going on. Like I wouldn't know. I would think, oh my God, I'm just hungover because I drank I, my joint pain's probably 'cause of that. Like I would kind of take the fall.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: of these symptoms, like I slept like shit. So it's because I drank, it's my fault.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: And then it would be the overcompensation of like, well, because I did that to myself last night and my joints hurt.
I'm gonna run five miles just to prove that I'm okay.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: of like punishment and, but now there's just so much more compassion for my body
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: what it's been through and what it's going through, and it's like, Hey, you know what? My knee hurts today.
Heather Lowe: Mm-hmm.
suzanne: gonna run [00:44:00] like I don't have to. There's no proving I'm like, okay, because I just don't have to do that anymore.
Heather Lowe: Yeah, totally. Totally. So first of all, if you're a runner, you should have bad feet. I have bad feet because I was a dancer, and I just love to say I was a dancer. So, but I, one thing that made me fall in love with you. Yeah. What?
suzanne: can we talk about, can we just talk about bad feet for just real quick? 'cause
Heather Lowe: Yes.
suzanne: really close to you because I get called out on, like, I'll get called out on my bunion online.
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: you know, I'll share, I'll share a photo and I didn't hate it before. Like, I'm like, whatever. it's a bone, you guys, it's not like a growth. Okay. It's a bone that's going the wrong way. Um, okay. How do you feel about your ugly feet? Are you like.
Heather Lowe: Well, I'm like you. I mean, I wanna disassociate right?
suzanne: you said bad. Are they ugly?
Heather Lowe: Also ugly. Yeah, I mean some, some things are good. My toes are in the right lineup.
suzanne: Okay. Okay. Wait,
Heather Lowe: You.
suzanne: do [00:45:00] you mean? Like the roast beef isn't
Heather Lowe: Right. Like everyone is just a step down from the before. So in that way, I think very good. But, um,
suzanne: Yes.
Heather Lowe: I have some things to work on. Okay. But I fell in love with you because I saw somebody comment on your bunion,
suzanne: Stop it.
Heather Lowe: a hater.
Uh, and then yeah, they said you had, it was nothing. You had a picture where you were barefoot and they said you have bunions, which is like.
suzanne: Oh my God.
Heather Lowe: Thank you for telling me. I had no,
suzanne: oh my
Heather Lowe: should I do? Like, like live in shame for the rest of my life. Like what? So your response to it was perfect. And I was like,
suzanne: say?
Heather Lowe: I like this girl.
suzanne: good.
Heather Lowe: you were like, yeah, I know. Basically like, I need you to,
suzanne: like
Heather Lowe: So it's like,
suzanne: contact with it.
Heather Lowe: it's just like
suzanne: Oh my
Heather Lowe: people online too, like. Do they like your, per your beautiful, perfect, gorgeous [00:46:00] picture, the cutest outfit, the best hair, the most gorgeous smile, skin, all the things, and somebody's gonna say, you have a bunion, because that is what they see from that.
suzanne: I know. I
Heather Lowe: I know that also as a perfectionist, you're like, oh my God, there's something wrong with me. Right?
suzanne: I think I probably, probably like 10 years ago. Yes. Right.
Heather Lowe: You're like, oh my God, I'm not perfect.
suzanne: yeah, like I would've, oh my God. People have to, people have come from my eyebrows before, like one eyebrows, like higher than the other.
Heather Lowe: hope so.
suzanne: and I'm like, aren't they always? Oh, I've been
Heather Lowe: You're like, they're sister's, not twins. They're they're cousins. Not whatever they say. Right. Yeah. Right.
suzanne: Yeah. Like, oh, I've been, I, I think I've been online for so long. And I've heard just the worst things about me, not, not my appearance. 'cause I feel like that I could kind of just roll with that and be like, yeah, whatever. But like I'm a horrible mom, spend time. I don't spend enough time with my kids. [00:47:00] You know?
That's like the pain point that I'm like, yeah, you're probably not that I'm a horrible mom. 'cause I think I'm a great mom. But like, yeah, I know, like spending time with my kids, I'm always like, God, didn't have to do this. You know, I didn't have to write a book. I didn't have to take on this kind of sobriety thing.
Should I, like, I, I have many moments where I'm like, should I have done all this? Like, should I have just gotten sober? Just. Quietly and like been more present with my kids. I feel like I'm pretty present with my kids. but I could have done more, you know, should I have, am I gonna look back and be like, why'd you have to do that?
Why? Why did you have to, why'd you have to? brother, my brother who's my first troll, um, he always says, 'cause he quit drinking right after I did. And so he's like, yeah, I mean, I quit drinking. I didn't [00:48:00] start a podcast about it, you know? And so it's like, well, yeah, and so I think I've, I've, I've been, there's, there's been so much said to me that was horrible about me, that I'm able to kind of just be like, yeah, my bunion, that's fine.
Like if you wanna talk about my bunion or that I'm, you know, kind of, I don't know too much or. All of the things. That's fine. It's the mom stuff that's like the pain point.
Heather Lowe: Yeah, well, too much people are my favorite kind of people. Did a whole podcast on that. Like
suzanne: You
Heather Lowe: if you're the miss, if you're like the Miss Piggy, so am I. If you're the Lucy from the Peanut, so am I. And are you the Tigger? You know, so am I. And I like too much people, so I'm a too much person too. We need people like, uh, Sue.
So that's good. And I always say, um, I don't have enough heaters. I'm not popular enough to have, I don't have enough heaters. When I get more heaters, I'll be like, wow, I'm really getting popular. I can't wait for [00:49:00] that.
suzanne: you
Heather Lowe: Um.
suzanne: will, you're, you're well on your way. And,
Heather Lowe: Exactly.
suzanne: and once they start coming, you'll be like, okay, here
Heather Lowe: Yeah. I'll be like, good on me, man. You, there's a handful of people out there that really don't like you, and they're gonna let you know.
suzanne: And that's the thing, like I always think like, well, if there are people who love you, there will be people who hate you. And
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
suzanne: people who hate me and yeah, that's okay.
Heather Lowe: Oh, well. Yeah. We're not for everyone.
suzanne: We're Gen X,
Heather Lowe: Totally.
suzanne: Like.
Heather Lowe: And the other thing, what I think is with the perimenopause right now, I think there's a, a real beauty that I think there's a real empowerment for me right now. So is it perimenopause and all these symptoms and rage and stuff, or is it like personally I fi and I'm a step ahead of you.
My kids are a step ahead of yours probably. But I finally have some space in my life. That's not just survival, right? Like my kids are. I have a junior in college and a senior in high school, so I have a lot of [00:50:00] breathing from motherhood and. I'm mad about some things in my life, right? And like, I got stuff to be mad about and I'm mad at.
I, I handled it the best I could in my past, but I'm different now and I'm changing patterns and I'm healing generations and I'm, I'm doing the big work now at this age. 'cause I have the confidence and the space and the brand like. Brain with to do it that I haven't always had. So I think it's beautiful.
And also it's a legacy that you're leading and for your kids, they need to see that. I love that. And for me, I, well both of us, but I coach mothers.
suzanne: Yes.
Heather Lowe: they're, they're putting their kids to bed sober. They're not rushing through that book anymore. They're, you know, and their kids are saying this and that, and it's like, there isn't more healing work I could do for the world.
And it's not just for me. I mean, it's for me, it's for my kids, for my clients, it's for the whole world. So it's the best thing to [00:51:00] do, you know, it's, it's creating a world that you want your kids to grow up in that says. Mom's not drinking because of you. What a terrible message that is. Right? Like you're so, you suck so bad that the only way to do this is to be half drunk, right?
suzanne: Oh my God, it's so true. And you know, something happened last night that made me be like, okay, and I, I'm sure I'll still have doubts and stuff, but. I got my books yesterday, like they were delivered. 'cause I haven't, I haven't gotten the books yet. I see you guys all, all get 'em.
And I was like, oh my God, that's great. And then I emailed my publisher and I'm like, is, are my books coming? And they came and I, I showed my kids and I was like, you guys come here. I need to show you this. And then I showed them the dedication because it's for them. And I said, you can't read this yet. Um, and they're like, when can we? And I'm like, when you're like 25. Maybe like 18, 19, I don't know. Not yet. And they each took one and then they were like, can you sign it? [00:52:00] And I was like, yeah, I'll sign it. And I wrote in my daughters, I wrote, I loved writing this book, but I love being your mom even more. And that's like, I think that that's, that, that just kind of brought it all.
I'm like, okay. They are seeing it and they, they get to have this thing, of mine, but that. that they see how much, 'cause I write in there so much about how much being a mom means to me and that I really did, I quit. You know, we always say you can't quit for somebody, but they are so, they are my reason always.
So,
Heather Lowe: And even for addressing your OCD.
suzanne: Yes,
Heather Lowe: Like it was because you had somebody else to care for. And even,
suzanne: yes.
Heather Lowe: and thank God, like you said, like I did not expect to cry on this podcast, but I was like, I was having a hard time when you were talking about your darkest moments. Um, I wanted to hang up and go lay down and cry,
suzanne: yeah.
Heather Lowe: um.[00:53:00]
It was like, it, it, it was an awakening for you, just like sobriety was an awakening for me. Right. And, um, it was because you cared about
suzanne: Mm-hmm.
Heather Lowe: first one so,
suzanne: Yeah.
Heather Lowe: much that it wasn't just you anymore. So. Hmm. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. We'll get this out. So, um, tell everybody you're going on, you're going on your book tour now so they can follow you at the Silver Mom life on Instagram.
suzanne: Yeah, follow me at Suzanne where I on Instagram, and then you can go to Suzanne where i.com and all the events are there. I'm going all over the place in October, and I wanna meet you guys. And Heather, I wanna meet you in
Heather Lowe: Yeah, it's coming soon for us, girl.
suzanne: Okay, good.
Heather Lowe: Awesome. Thank you for your time.
suzanne: you.
